salvation:
do you think that salvation is for our ultimate benefit or to ultimately benefit God? i use the word ultimately purposefully because my thought initially fall's under both categories but i think the ultimate purpose of salvation can only fall in one of these categories without contradicting each other.
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4 comments:
I disagree. I think it can fall under both categories. Salvation is for us because it saves us from the torments of hell. And that is et
eternal. But, what will we be doing for eternity? Worshipping God. so, our salvation is for Him as a result. It also shows His mercy and grace towards us (giving us what we don't deserve - heaven- and not giving us what we do deserve - hell). His love is also present in our salvation, etc.
If no humans were saved, the rocks would cry out - and the angels of course would worship him. So, therefore our salvation can't be just for Him. But, then again it isn't just for us because everything is for His glory and honor.
@ SSU: I agree and I disagree. What you just said is my initial thoughts on the matter...which are true but I think that theory is not the ULTIMATE purpose of salvation.
I think the PURPOSE OF LIFE is greater than you and I. I think we start to tread in dangerous waters when we interpret scripture to say that this life, this world, God's creation, suffering, joys, victories...are for us. We continue treading when our reality becomes "man-centered" and not "God-centered." When WE become the focus of history then our lives (in our minds) become greater than God. That is a problem.
Christ is the center, the apex, the climax of history. Everything that happened in the OT of scripture pointed to Christ. Everything that happened in the NT looks back at Christ. History was and is about the glory of God...the exulting of Christ.
I absolutely believe we benefit from Christ's death on the cross. I believe that Christ died with us on His mind because without His shed blood we would not have salvation. I believe that God loves us more than we could ever understand. This is my initial thought on the matter of "who salvation is for,"...of course it's for us and God (it initially is).
BUT...when we have a world of "man-centered" Christians then we have a world of Christian who say..."what can God do for me?" And when God doesn't deliver what we ask...we find our foundation rocked...when it was never ALL about us to begin with. Man-centered churches/Christians, like Joel Osteen's church in Houston (if your familiar) that has 25-30,000 in attendance (not counting it's TV audience), the focus is all about human prosperity/man-centered. This mind frame will cause us to work hard during the week so we can go the church on the weekend and offer God our sacrifices (that's man-centered worship TO God). Then on the weeks when we feel we have nothing to give...we feel unworthy.
This is the roller-coaster ride of spirituality.
Worship is not about US and what we bring to the table of God, worship is not TO God, it's ABOUT God...it's about coming empty handed and asking God to fill us up.
Again...we benefit but it's ULTIMATELY about God. We don't worship to benefit us...but to glorify God.
I truly believe that "God is most glorified when we are most satisfied in him." Scripture makes claim after claim that there is happiness (blessedness), delight, and joys to be found in Christ. BUT it's only through GOD-CENTERED living...not man-centered.
With all that (sorry for such a lengthy reply), it think it's contradicting of God to say that salvation is ULTIMATELY about us and about Him. For Him...it has to be man-centered or God-centered. I am happy to worship a God that is all about Himself for that reality states that there is nothing greater than Him...not even us.
@SSU: I didn't ask but I wanted to. What's your thoughts?
So I have been thinking about this for a while now. I keep trying to find a way to distinguish between the salvation of a specific individual and the act of salvation/God's plan of salvation. I believe our individual salvations are His gift to us, and therefore they do benefit us ultimately. But the wonder of His plan and how He is willing to save all mankind is totally for His glory.
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. (Eph 2:8-9) This verse came to my mind. If salvation is for us ultimately, it is still a gift of God. Therefore He deserves the glory and honor for it.
Okay - new thought. I think it might be similar to works and faith. What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?... Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. (James 2:14,17). It is by faith that we are saved. Nothing we can do will earn us a ticket to heaven. But, if we have the faith needed (i.e. believe on Jesus and accept Him as our Lord and Saviour), then works should be present in our lives. If we claim to be a Christian but we do not have any fruit of our faith, then there is a high probability that our faith is not real. Same thing goes for salvation. It is to our benefit. But, as soon as we realize it is to our benefit, we must realize that it is for His glory as well. As a result, we should honor, worship, and praise Him with all that we say, do, and think...
Does that make any sense?
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