Can you change God’s mind?
I have heard the term fundamentalist Christian used frequently and I don’t quite grasp the term fully. I understand that a fundamentalist is someone who upholds the belief of the strict and literal interpretation of the Bible. Apposed to someone who believes the Bible to be figurative or allegorical I consider myself to be a fundamentalist. But in reading passages like Exodus 32 the literal can be that you can change God’s mind.
At points you have to look beyond literal and see principle. That is important Bible study methods.
Can you change God’s mind. No! God raises questions and situations to bring you into conversation with Him. God’s omnipotent power does not stop with us; meaning it’s wrong to think that if we don’t ask then God wont act. Our silence does not stop the power of God (this idea gives us more authority than God and ultimately makes us greater than God). It raises a good question to think, what if Moses would have agreed with God that Israel should be destroyed and that God should start over with him? Would God have destroyed his chosen nation?
By no means because of the covenant He made with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
Moses was confident in who God was/is. He knew what God’s promise was. His confidence superseded his insecurities. His response was not specifically on behalf of Israel but on the reputation of God (among Egypt and among the rest of the world).
God desires for us to have communion with Him. He desires to bring us into His glory. If we abstain from communion with Him then we are forfeiting the glory of God (Romans 1:23). God has choses those who are to be saved but brings us into His glory by using us; by praying for their salvation of the lost and having conversation with them. Peoples fates are not in our hands but God moves us into conversation with Him so that we may know His power. To think we have the power to change lives is to “exchange the glory of the immortal God” for worship of created things (us).
In this truth I still believe that we are held accountable for our “worship” of God. Worship meaning the offering our bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God. In worship we commune with God. In worship God directs us. In our abstinence of worship (specifically communion), we sin. Ultimately forfeiting the glory of God.
What do you think?
Genesis 18:16-21 - God engages Abraham into the a conversation with Him in His plan to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah. Abraham enters the conversation and pleas for this city.
Exodus 32:7-10, 11-14 - The people of Israel under Aaron’s leadership made the golden calf in Moses’ absence. God told Moses about it on the Mountain and in his reveal He tells Moses that He is going to destroy this nation and raise up Moses and make a great nation of him. Moses pleas for God’s mercy and reminds Him of His covenant with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Then the LORD relented from the disaster he spoke of.
Numbers 14 - Israel cries out to the LORD after the report of the spies that the land to too great for overtake. Their hearts to do not believe the LORD and grumble about why He took them out of Egypt. God told Moses that He would destroy them and make him (Moses) a great nation. Moses pleas to God on behalf of Israel and God relents his wrath and says that this nation will not enter the Holy Land except for Caleb.
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6 comments:
I believe God knows what is going to happen but we still have free will. Because He is above time, He is in the past, present, and future all at the same time. But, here on earth we each make our own path. He guides that path, but we have decisions to make. His will is for all to be saved. But, He knows that some will not accept this gift. It isn't because He didn't give it to all. It is because some have chosen to not accepted it. He didn't make that decision - we have. But, when He formed each of us, He knew what decisions we would make because He is already in the future.
aju5's mom: my mind goes in different directions on this one in how to approach your point. remember i am not stating fact but arguing my point of view...help me see it from your's.
keeping it vague and simple: if God's will is for all men to come to know Him and He has given us the choice in free will to receive Him or not...has He given us the ability to choose above Him (since His will is for ALL to know Him). Has he given us more power (in the choice) then what He has (in His will)?
It's hard to compare our will to God's will because of the differences in magnitude, perfection, omnipotence, but...
My will for my children (that is, what I wish for them, think is best for them and encourage them toward) is different from what they choose. If God's will is 'superimposed' on us, is our Worship of him really a choice and does it mean anything to him if he forces us to worship? If I force my wife and children to love me, is it really love?
One of my children chose not to attend college. One of my children became pregnant in high school. One of them has dropped out of church. This was not my will, not what I wanted, not what I taught and encouraged, but was a result of their choices. Do I wish it was different? Sure.
God has a will for my life--to live in harmony with him (and this is more than just salvation, but lifestyle). He encourages, teaches, longs for his will to be reality. But still, I get the choice.
God's will is for All to be saved, but if some chose not, it does not make them greater than God. It simply proves that he is sovereign enough to allow them the choice and prefers our longing to love and submit to his will over forcing us to do so. otherwise, we would be created beings who worship him with no choice--that is, angels.
to me, the question "Has he given us more power (in the choice) then what He has (in His will)?" is an false question because the premise implied is that one choice must override the other. Instead, we must see that God can have both in place with the paradox being only in our minds, not his.
Here is another way to look at it. God could have made it so all men were saved. He can still do that today. He has the power, but He chooses to give us the choice through free-will. Jesus did not exercise all of His powers here on earth. He chose to not use His omniscience as seen when He said only the Father know the time. He chose not to use his omnipotence when He allowed the Father's will to be done - not His. The same thing goes for having all saved.
aju5's mom: thanks for sticking with me. I not following your example of Jesus not choosing his omnipotence. when Jesus came to this earth He forfeited his diety (though still fully human and fully God) to have utter dependance upon the Father. plus, when you start talking asking the question of "does God have free-will" that opens a whole other can of worms. maybe that's my next blog topic.
with the mid-frame of free will, how do you answer these scriptures?
Deuteronomy 29:4 "But to this day the LORD has not given you a heart to understand or eyes to see or ears to hear." (speaking of Israel's rebellion in the wilderness)
Romans 9:13 "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated" (if you know the story Esau was the firstborn who deserved the blessing from his father but sold his birthright to Jacob. Through some slippery moves from Jacob and his mom Rachel...he gets the blessing and becomes a Patriarch. God chose Jacob, not Easu)
Romans 9:15-16,18-20 "For (God) says to Moses, 'I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.' So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy...So then He has mercy on whomever He wills, and He hardens whomever He wills. You will say to me then, 'Why does He still find fault? For who can resist His will?' But who are you, O man, to answer back to God..."
Romans 11:1-10 (emphesis v. 7) "What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened, as it is written, 'God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that would not see and ears that would not hear, dow to the very day.'" speaking in light of Deut. 29 previously noted...Israel's heart was hardened.
You stated in a previous "theology" blog of mine a verse in titus that supports free will...this is how Titus starts:
Titus 1:1 "Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, for the sake of the faith of God's elect and their knowledge..."
Ephesisans 1:4-5 "even as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before Him. In love He predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ."
We see the hardening heart work of God throughout the Bible. How do you tie free will with these scriptures? This is a real genuine question.
Mark: you said, "If God's will is 'superimposed' on us, is our Worship of him really a choice and does it mean anything to him if he forces us to worship?"
Though we are chosen by God, that does not make us perfect. Can I ask you a question, "Does God have free will? Can God sin?" If no, why?
It was mentioned to me tonight in a conversation with someone (and I agree fully) that God acts according to His nature. His choice is responsible to His nature. Holy. Perfect. Sinless.
Our choices are according to our nature. We are responsible to our nature...what is that? Fallen! SInful! Broken!
God chooses us. God saves us. We still sin because that is our nature.
The idea of robots and predestination are not cohesive. Our nature is far from perfect. We are saved by God's grace and thanks to His holy spirit we are brought back to repentance. Not an act of myself but an act of God.
But the initial choosing is Gods, not our own.
You said, "God's will is for All to be saved, but if some chose not, it does not make them greater than God." How not? If God's will if for all to be saved and we can all agree that is not happening, He is leaving the choice in our hands. If our choice surpasses His desire, how is our choice not greater than His?
Umm...I am probably the idot here but can you help me unpack this sentence you said, "Instead, we must see that God can have both in place with the paradox being only in our minds, not his." Can you re-word it?
You said, "the question "Has he given us more power (in the choice) then what He has (in His will)?" is an false question because the premise implied is that one choice must override the other." Without fulling understanding what you were saying at the end, I agree that I am saying that one choice overrides the other. LIke I previously noted, If our choice surpasses His desire, how does our choice not override His desire?
Mark, thank you so much for commenting. You know that I love you and your family SO much. This is all in love right? Thanks for stretching me!
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